Missing Gila Monster

[Bill]

Posting this for Arizona Game and Fish:
"FYI. This research animal disappeared from Erika Nowak's Tonto project. She suspects that it may have been removed. If you see it, please advise Ray Kohls. The microchip info is listed."

Reason 999,999,999 not to mess with Gila's. And more proof that the AHA is a resource for G&F.

[JJFeldner]

or does it have a transmitter as well? Gilas are quite elusive and there is no guarantee it will be found without a working transmitter. :(

[Gila Kid]

I found a DOR gila on the north side of Roosevelt lake, it looked alot like that. It was a subadult, about 10" all together with tail.

[jcaron9999]

This may seem a dumb question to most of you, but how do you attach (and keep) a transmitter on a lizard? I know very little about actual field herping so be gentle...;)

[brandi]

surgical glue works well, it falls off after several days though. I don't care for the "back pack" types. Desert Tortoise we just epoxy it right to their shell.
B~

[JJFeldner]

into the coelomic cavity is the normal means. The coelomic cavity is opened enough to implant the xmtr and the antenna is then unfolded and extended inside the body wall. This works very well until the battery craps out. There are at least 2 studies (and probably more) using this method in AZ of which I am aware. One is on C. atrox and the other is on Gilas. Also, I believe that any Gila which is captured is implanted with a passive device such as a PIT tag so, if you (Gila Kid) found a DOR, I hope you kept the body for AZGF to check out.

[jcaron9999]

into the coelomic cavity is the normal means. The coelomic cavity is opened enough to implant the xmtr and the antenna is then unfolded and extended inside the body wall. This works very well until the battery craps out. There are at least 2 studies (and probably more) using this method in AZ of which I am aware. One is on C. atrox and the other is on Gilas. Also, I believe that any Gila which is captured is implanted with a passive device such as a PIT tag so, if you (Gila Kid) found a DOR, I hope you kept the body for AZGF to check out.

So you would anesthetize the snake/lizard, than actually cut the body cavity open and implant? How long is the antenna? I'm wondering how that would affect the snake's locomotion.

[Donna]

[QUOTE=JJFeldner if you (Gila Kid) found a DOR, I hope you kept the body for AZGF to check out.[/QUOTE]

I would think having in your possession a dead Gila would be illegal because of their highly protected status. I know with other animals it is, can't see why Gilas would be different.

Donna

[Gila Kid]

I can give a location of where I last saw it, but scavengers have surely scattered the remains.

[JJFeldner]

There are several things going on here. AZGF has advertised that there is a Gila missing. I doubt highly whether any GF LE officer would hassle somebody for attempting to transport a dead Gila to a place where AZGF could determine whether that animal is the missing one. It is not as if Gila Kid would be transporting the animal for nefarious purposes such as taxidermy or freeze drying. It is not as if somebody with pure heart and mind were attempting to keep the animal sans permit.

[Donna]

There are several things going on here. AZGF has advertised that there is a Gila missing. I doubt highly whether any GF LE officer would hassle somebody for attempting to transport a dead Gila to a place where AZGF could determine whether that animal is the missing one. It is not as if Gila Kid would be transporting the animal for nefarious purposes such as taxidermy or freeze drying. It is not as if somebody with pure heart and mind were attempting to keep the animal sans permit.

I dunno about that Jerry, I know someone who was transporting a dead eagle to G&F because it had been shot and the tree that contained it's offspring had been cut down. He was arrested and charged.

Donna

[JJFeldner]

what was the disposition of the case? You are not guilty of a crime just because AZGF says you are. You still can go to court and plead your case.

[colby]

3 foot Monitor lizard in a 4x6 foot cage once. I think it is odd that someone would think because they can't find a Gila would think it is gone? It would be cool to have a public data base with pictures of all the wild Gilas we find. Well I shouldn't say we.. I have never seen one.

Colby

[SWHerper]

A friend and I have been tracking Crotalus Tigris for the U of A and helping someone get a PHD. We use the same transmitters and PIT tags as well. There are several different types of transmitters and I believe we are using 3 gram transmitters. Very interesting stuff. We use a type of surgical glue when we put PIT tags in new animals, as Brandi mentioned. It keeps the wound closed until it heals and falls off on an average of 3-4 days. As with transmitters, you actually have to make an incision and insert the tranmitter and then stitch it back up. I have watched this surgery a couple times. On turtles they cement it on with an epoxy.

[JJFeldner]

just because you can't find it. As SW Herper mentions, there is a study on C. tigris going on in the Tucson area. Even though the researchers find a lot of Tigers on their study site, the bread-and-butter is in the animals that can be easily accessed repeatedly. Those animals have implanted xmtrs. I can't beieve Erika Nowak would complain about an unimplanted animal being missing.

[Donna]

what was the disposition of the case? You are not guilty of a crime just because AZGF says you are. You still can go to court and plead your case.

He was found guilty and spent 14 days in jail as well as a heafty fine.

[Marty]

How long ago did this occur? For AZ G&F to penalize and jail a person for a 'Good Samitan' act is out of character and puts them at odds with engaging the public to assist in conservation efforts. I would have done exactly as your friend, though I would have likely called AZ G&F to notify them and get direction. That way, I would have someone who is an AZ G&F employee to reference for why I proceeded dealing with a protected species the way I did. Unfortunately, when wildlife laws are involved, sensibilities often seem to be forgotten (such as Donna's friend being puinished while the guy caught for shooting a Mexican wolf was allowed to lie and change his story and still go free). Just like when dealing with herps, CYA (cover your...). Don't assume people who perform enforcment, from wildlife managers to judges, are going to 'do the right thing,' so don't put yourself in a position where they have an ability to make a judgement.

I don't know the rationale for AZ G&F requesting the missing monster to be posted. It could be an honest attempt at assisting Erika in finding the Gila or be a more insidious implication on how some in the department view herpers - they think a herper poached it so make the disappearance known and get someone to roll on the 'bad guy.' I have been to Erika's fieldsite and have assisted with radio-telemetry for years. Her site could be problematic due to the following reasons: Gilas can move out of range as they are quite capable of making long distance movements. Trasmitters can, and do, fail - even shortly after implantation. Transmitter signals, especially in areas of dynamic topography, can be difficult to locate at times. Add difficult to locate transmitter signals to a Gila on the move and I could see how an animal could become misplaced. The other thing, and possibly why AZ G&F made the notice public, is the amount of public traffic at Erika's fieldsite. The chance a herper picked the monster up is small, if not remote, but they could be hoping that someone who saw the Gila and picked it up will make it known to a herper as they look for information, etc. on how to care for Gilas.

[Donna]

How long ago did this occur?

It was about 6 years ago.

[brandi]

marty, sounds like you know something about telemetry... what spp have you worked with?
B~

[Marty]

I've been active with projects where C.willardi, C.atrox, H.suspectum, and L.trivirgata have been studied using radiotelemetry. Been out a few times with people studying other species using radiotelemtry, too.