Bulls, Pines, Gophers...which are the biggest?

[Mantis]

I'm looking for some snakes, and want a nice thick, north American colubrid. I thought that Bull snakes were the biggest (with some species getting 8 or 9 feet long), length and girthwise, but I think Pines and some Gophers are up there too. Can anyone help me out?

[snake-hunter]

i have seen some pics of HUGE and i mean huge pine snakes. also bull snakes but not as big of gophers. just something to think about.

[AMills]

I think bulls get the biggest. Bill posted a picture of a big one a while back. Type in big bull snake in the search forums and you should be able to see it.

[MRC]

If you want a big colubrid Bullsnakes get the biggest in length and girth. I have seen some Gophers that have been a impressive 6 foot or so, I have both Bulls, Pines and several Gophers, my favorite are by far the Gopher snakes. I should have some very nice Gopher babies this year from unusually patterned morphs they are all native so will be free. I have 20 Bullsnake eggs from a albino female and a snow male. The male is around 6' so far and the female is around 5' just remember if you get a hatchling Pine or Bull and often Gophers are defensive little buggers, but generally soon grow out of it.

[Scorphunter24]

Az reptile center has a huge pine snake for sale. Not sure what the price is.

[Mantis]

Originally posted by MRC
If you want a big colubrid Bullsnakes get the biggest in length and girth. I have seen some Gophers that have been a impressive 6 foot or so, I have both Bulls, Pines and several Gophers, my favorite are by far the Gopher snakes. I should have some very nice Gopher babies this year from unusually patterned morphs they are all native so will be free. I have 20 Bullsnake eggs from a albino female and a snow male. The male is around 6' so far and the female is around 5' just remember if you get a hatchling Pine or Bull and often Gophers are defensive little buggers, but generally soon grow out of it.

Thanks! So what makes Gophers your favorite?

[Mantis]

Originally posted by AMills
I think bulls get the biggest. Bill posted a picture of a big one a while back. Type in big bull snake in the search forums and you should be able to see it.


Holy crap that IS big!! Thanks for the info...

[MRC]

Gophers in my experience have been more docile and aren't quite as big of a garbage gut, seems like Bulls are a bottom less pit!!! Not saying that Bulls aren't docile mine are tame, but i just trust the Gophers more. I have had a few bulls and pines, and i just dont seem to trust them as much and I just prefer the smaller size of my Gophers, and I think Gophers are a prettier snake.

[JJFeldner]

8 feet in length down deep in the heart of*. I actually caught a gopher here in AZ that measured 7'2" and was big around as my forearm. He was a great education assistant for over 5 years but then he - sob- died, probably of old age.


* = Texas

[Mantis]

Yeah, that sounds familiar. I've heard that Bulls from Texas are the biggest. So how do I go about getting a Bull from Texas? Is it a specific color or morph?

[Lilla]

I lived in Texas for about 10 years, hubby born and raised there.
They would pull out 6' - 8' bulls out of peoples garage's...
Would here it come over the scanner atleast once or twice a month...

[K9Coach]

I caught me a gopher a few months back during a removal call. That boy was easily over 6 feet.

[Mantis]

Pardon my ignorance, but being as they are practically the same species (subspecies), do Gophers and Bulls cross breed in the wild?

[Gila Kid]

Gophers and bulls have an intergrade zone in N.M. but not here. Although some of the gophers from way eastern AZ look alot like bulls in my opinion. I saw a 7' road kill last weekend. It was on highway 87 with tons of weekend traffic. When I past it a 70 mph it looked big, but after I hiked up the road a half a mile to retrieve it it was really big. The color and pattern were blah, but when I picked it up by the neck and held it over my head the tail still touched the ground and I'm 6' even. Too bad, it was definetly the grand dad of the area. The weekend warriors were honking as they went by, I guess they thought it was still alive. Anyone have big one in captivity they can post a pic of. Mines only five foot.

[MRC]

Gophers and Bulls do mix i can guarantee it, I happen to have a growing 5' hybrid. Hes actually a pretty cool snake! Has the Gopher markings for the most part but a bullsnake head and no neck.

[HERPSKEEPER]

I have seen pics of gophers that were about 8.5ft, i have held gophers and bulls that where about 7ft.


Just my two cents

[JJFeldner]

involved.

Stebbins says that the biggest Pituophis known grow to 110" but he does not give sizes for various spp/ssp.

Conant gives the following figures:

N. Pine - to 66"
Black Pine - to 64"
Lousiana Pine - to 54"
Bull - record of 100" or 8'4"
Sonoran - record of 92"

Behler gives a maximum size of 100" but includes all US snakes in the genus Pituophis.

Mehrtens gives lengths of 7' for N. Pines and S. Pines, saying that S. Pines may be larger. He also says that Bulls may reach 9 feet (!!)but 5' is more normal.

None of the authors mentions size for the spp/ssp, deppei, lineaticollis or vertebralis which are found from Mexico south into Central America.

Going by the above, I tend to doubt that a gopher measuring 8.5 feet has been found.

[Cmpyrrhus]

finds for me are in the 2-4' range, although I have seen Gophers in the six foot margain and bigger. This of course is certainly rare, but Gophers are very common and eventually finding a big guy will show up at some time.

The Pine snake out at AZ Rep was cool I may add. I was wishing I had brought some cash along with me, as it would most likely be in my collection now..lol. He was girthy, beautiful and healthy. Should have been mine.

[JJFeldner]

it's still there awaiting a caring owner.

[HERPSKEEPER]

Its still there.

[JJFeldner]

This is a late addition from Tennant's "Texas Snakes:" "--- the largest specimen (of bull) taken in Texas is the 8' 6.5" Wichita County giant captured by Dr. R. Kuntz---"

Note: the copyright is 1985 and there is a later FG to TX snakes.

[MikeB]

Check out this post on another forum. Too bad it was DOR though.

http://www.fieldherpers.com/fieldherping/messages/33332.html

[AMills]

So did you figure out what kind you want?

[MRC]

If you are going to want a Gopher i have 11 Sonoran Gopher eggs the mother is abberant pattern, the father is hypo-melanistic. I also have a gorgeous Sonoran female with nice red speckling and a very light faded pattern male that locked up and i should have eggs soon, also my Bull/Gopher hybrid bred to a nice normal phase. Im sure when its all done there will be over 30 eggs in total that i will need to gift.

[Mantis]

Originally posted by AMills
So did you figure out what kind you want?

Yeah, I want one of each!! I think I've narrowed it down to

1. Bull
2. Gopher

...in that order. I really wouldn't mind having one of each (or more) of those. I'm leaning a little more heavily on Bulls; but Gophers are right up there too. I think I'll try getting a hold of one of those red bulls, and I'll try to snag one of the Gophers from MRC too...

[MRC]

Snag as many as you want-LOL. I will also be giving away a few of the adults. The ones im thinking about giving away are in the 2 1/2 to 4' range. I have more Gophers than i want.

[KKC]

Hey MRC, leave my gophers alone!

[Mantis]

Originally posted by Cmpyrrhus


The Pine snake out at AZ Rep was cool I may add. I was wishing I had brought some cash along with me, as it would most likely be in my collection now..lol. He was girthy, beautiful and healthy. Should have been mine.

Anybody get a price on that Pine at AZ Rep?

[MRC]

Sorry KKC, Guess who cleaned every single Gopher cage this morning? Hmmmmm i don't think it was you! LOL

[BITTENONCE]

I caught a Bullsnake south of San Antonio Tx in 2000, that measures just under 7 ft. I still have it in my collection with pics if anyone wants to see.

[snake-hunter]

oooo id like to see pics!

[BITTENONCE]

Snake hunter, e-mail me at snapper93@msn.com if you want to see my 6'8 bullsnake. :bright :hi

[JJFeldner]

Some years ago, when I was working for the US Census Bureau in N. Scottsdale, I took a ride up the power line road N. of Dynamite. There i found a 7'2" Gopher which was living in a ground squirrel colony. I took the monster home and kept it for over 5 years until it died. During that time, I took it to many schools and educational programs. During the 5 years I had it, it only grew about 1/4" in length. It was great with kids and allowed handling until late in life when it decided that my hand was better than the rats I was feeding it.

[HERPSKEEPER]

Do you have any pics?

[JJFeldner]

with my son. I don't recall taking pics but he may have done so.