? where to hunt for snakes

[CARLOS CREATURES]

WERES A GOOD PLACE TO GO HUNTING FOR SNAKES ,,Gopher SnakeS AND KINGSNAKES THANKS FOR ANY INFO:hi

[SWHerper]

Dude, you can find kingsnakes and gophers just about ANYWHERE. I would try walking local washes and I've found even in urban/suburban ares I find them in great numbers. I've seen more Crotalus Atrox and Pits on local golf courses than anywhere else. Water is a definate plus in my book. I don't think anybody would want give specific localities though. Just pick a place and go for it! Good luck....of course this starts once spring comes sooo, for now everyone is waiting for the temps to rise. :bright Can't wait for spring and the herps to "rear up".

[CARLOS CREATURES]

THANKS BRO FOR THE INFO ..HOPEFULLY I FIND SOME KINGS

[HERPSKEEPER]

Carlos, kings and gophers are everywhere just about. I have found one area thats got gophers and kings up the yingyang. That area would be down by.....i think i'll just keep it to myself:Nana :D :Nana :D :Nana :D :Nana

[Pat]

I know I constantly wander the washes in my area during night and day, but have never seen a snake. Just wondering, does anione have some tips on finding them?

[Pat]

I'm specifically looking to find king snakes, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[brandi]

why do you want king snakes pat? there's so many nice captive bred kings its kinda pointless to catch a wild one...

[Cmpyrrhus]

Here is the scoop. Heh...

Just find the needed natural history reports of a given species, do some research and take the time out in the field. That is about the only way you will find any honestly. Many folks can give advise, but in the end it is up to you to take the time to understand and learn by trial and error, and by good ol' reading. Plus, IMO, makes it much worth while to find out and understand by observation and research.

Anyone can say "look here or there". Just takes you to go "look here and there" to find out the "why" in it all.

It is also a good idea to be careful while out in our desert and herping. Bring along a friend, tell folks where you'll be, do not touch the venomous snakes, so on and so forth. Not to burst any egos...just use some common sence outdoors!

[Pat]

I am extremely carefull about that kind of stuff, though I expect to find nothing in my area. I go out every night in the summer in the washes, and desert by my house. amd mever seem a snake, tort, or amphibian. Sorta weird.

[HERPSKEEPER]

I have never liked the scottsdale area for herping, but i know there are snakes out there. When i lived in Fountain Hills, i used to herp the reservation(a big no-no)and the surrounding area, i found alot of big gophers, some longnosed, few kings, and wdb's.The only way to learn where herps are is to get out in the field and find them.

[CARLOS CREATURES]

my buddies live in fountain hills ....

[HERPSKEEPER]

Whats there names?

[CARLOS CREATURES]

ILL PM YOU

[macro315]

i was wondering if anybody has caught any hognose?and what was the closest area to phoenix...

[Gmmullen]

It was many years ago, back when the Desert Massasauga was legal to possess, but I caught both on US 80 north of Douglas. Hope this helps.

Please don't give out any specific locations; it ruins it for the people who find snakes, and leave them there. That, or take one that they need.

By the way, I really like what "Cmpyrrhus" had to say.

Dustin

[SWHerper]

I know a couple places in Wilcox where you can find Hognose fairly easily. To me they were more associated with wetter and grassy areas and especially like soft soil. Don't know how long a drive that is from Phoenix. I'm here in Tucson so 2 hours does it. I had one for a long time and they are frog and toad specialists as you know so would have to breed toads. If you would want one I would recommend CB individuals. Awesome snakes though and it boggled me forever if they were really rear-fanged mildly venomous. So I read up on it and they pose no threat. Happy herping!

[macro315]

yea i caught a baby a couple years ago in wilcox actually,it was at a hand pick orchard,i was just wondering if there was anywhere closer,i would like to just catch another wild one,there not really the type of snake i would throw 50 bucks down for,thanks swherper!

[MRC]

I bought 2 @ $30 each that are cb pinky eaters. They are a very neat snake. You can try to switch them over by scenting rodents with toads.

[brandi]

not trying to start a fight so don't anybody take offence... but if you aren't willing to drop $50 on a snake, are you really up for the expense of owning one? feeding, caging, heating, not to mention vet care that will likely be necessary for a WC animal... it all adds up. just something to think about before you go grab an animal out of the wild.

[emroul]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Brandi. :)

[macro315]

donna,i can definitely appreciate what you said and i understand where your coming from,allow me to clarify myself, i should have written that i didn't actually want to own another one,i kinda just wanted to take some nice pics and maybe if i knew somebody before hand that wanted a snake,give them a new pet(i have alot of friends that are barely getting into reptiles)i hope by me just typing a price doesn't insinuate me to be an incapable reptile keeper in the future,i understand that you are just looking out for the well being of reptiles and your concern is admirable,if everybody was like you we wouldn't have so many abandoned pets!i apologize for the misconception...

[macro315]

ummm yea disregard the name i wrote at the beggining,i meant to write brandi..

[dthomas]

A WC animal is really a poor choice to give to friend who is "barely getting into reptiles." There are too many problems with WC anmials. Parasites and feeding problems being the two biggest. All you will end up doing is setting your friends up for failure and turning them off of herps. A CBB animal is money well spent and will most likely cost less in the long term. Vet visits to treat for parasites and wasted feeders on reluctant eaters will add up quickly. Do your friends a favor and point them to CBB animals.

[brandi]

macro315, no offense taken dear, guess i'm starting to sound like Donna! :) i just want to always be encouraging *responsible* pet ownership... and I gotta agree w/ dthomas about the wc/cbb thing. I work in the pet trade, and cannot tell you the grief caused by selling WC animals. if you just want pics, why not just go field herping with your camera instead of a collection bag? just makes sense to me...

laters ya'll

[Donna]

OMG, that's too funny you put MY name there. Am I getting a reputation for ragging on people or what? hahaha I stayed out of this on PURPOSE and yet still got dragged into it. hehehe

Donna

[macro315]

pretty much all my friends that are barely getting into reptiles alreay have cb reptiles,so don't get me wrong about choosing wc over cb,matter of fact the only wc reptile we have in our house is an adult red blood python,and all the wild stuff i catch but then release right away,and that's because i don't think there's anything in arizona worth keeping, if any of you feel i'm a bad herper,i could care less...

[Donna]

I don't think anyone here knows you well enough to even begin to judge you as a good or bad herper (it's not like you've been here posting for several years). I am sure it is not any of our goals to run around and place labels on people as good or bad herpers.

I'm sure as many of us spend a lot of time on the internet and in various pet and reptile stores we get a little cynical at times. I kinda feel like you do. I might take a free snake and I'd give it good care (including any vet care) but I doubt you'll see me spending money on one. But I'm NOT a snake person. The only snakes I have ever seen that I wanted was a native up for adoption (but I was too sick to arrange pickup) and I really love the looks of the BRB for sale right now.

There are however people who wont give needed vet care to a free or cheap animal. There are also people who only think about native wild caughts as 'free' and don't take into consideration that not much in this world is ever free, they always come with additional responsibilities.

Donna

[brandi]

macro, i don't think anybody's making judgements, or even "ragging" on anyone. this group exists so we can support, educate, and encourage one another. nothing more, and certainly nothing less. We all share a common interest, and we should be willing to help eachother make good choices about pursuing our hobby.

[sonoma]

"i don't think there's anything in arizona worth keeping." Did I read that correctly? Is that really your opinion. Those are fighting words to us on this forum!!! Arizona has a ton of worthy animals! I know that I've put a ton of miles on my vehicles and a lot of time in search of worthy Arizona animals..
Luke

:HMAD:

[macro315]

well to say the least i apologize then brandi and whoever else,i would say there was some misinterpretation between us and i really don't want to get off on the wrong foot...
sonoma,that's great to hear you have so much passion for az's reptiles,but to each his own buddy...

[brandi]

macro, no worries buddy. its okay to have your own herp passions. and its cool with me if natives aren't your thing, i know not everybody will love them, all i care is that everybody *respect* them. so then what herps are you into?

[HERPSKEEPER]

Thats one i have never heard. AZ is an awsome state when it comes to native critters, we got the gila monsters(only venomous lizards in the world), we got some of the coolest looking rattlesnakes around(mojave being my favorite,mojove also being the most venomous rattler in the states), and how about the big gophersnakes(seen some that were pushing 7ft) and the kingsnakes we got slithering around, come on man how can these not be worthy enough to keep?:confused: :loco :confused: :loco :confused:

[brandi]

actually hun, Mexican Beaded Lizards (giloderma horridium) are also venomous. they are in the same genus as gila monsters (giloderma suspectum). but i totally agree with ya, AZ is one of the greatest places in the country for herps. Only place in the US to find brown vinesnakes! Plus green rats, sonoran and california kings, gophers (and i've seen some big ones too, not 7' but big) and don't forget my beloved Desert Tortoise... but hey, people can be interested in other stuff, as long as the natives still get treated with respect.

[HERPSKEEPER]

Ya i know about the mexican beaded lizards, there's also the sub species of the gila monster, the banded(H. s. cinctum) the reticulate(H. s. suspectum)

[sharrack]

:loco :loco
Lot's of incorrect info on that one....no offense.
:loco :loco

[HERPSKEEPER]

I think she meant heloderma

[HERPSKEEPER]

Ya i know about the mexican beaded lizards, there's also the sub species of the gila monster, the banded(H. s. cinctum) the reticulate(H. s. suspectum)

Am i correct with what i said? or am i wrong about the subspecies

[JJFeldner]

"mojave being my favorite,mojove also being the most venomous rattler in the states"

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that. On the LD50 list of the most venomous snakes in the world, the Mojave Rattlesnake winds up out of the running. The first US snake comes in at #15 - Crotalus tigris - also an AZ native. I think the Mojave comes in at #76, behind several other US rattlers.;)

[HERPSKEEPER]

Im not talking about in the world, im talking about here in the U.S. and only with rattlesnakes.

[brandi]

thank you, yes i meant Heloderma... that's why i get for trying to type so bloody early in the morning! (and no coffee either :( ) thanks for the catch hun.

I think the "most venomous" idea comes from the fact that mojaves have hemo- and neurotoxic qualities to their venom. but nice job pulling up the LD50 data on that, where did you find it?

[emroul]

But what Jerry is saying is you stated that the Mojave Rattlesnake is the most poisonous in Arizona, or the US, and it isn't. I'm pretty sure it's the Tiger Rattlesnake for Arizona (that's what Jerry said, as well). I'm not sure about the most poisonous Crotalus in the whole US, though. :)

[HERPSKEEPER]

ok, i had always thought the mojave was the most venomous in the U.S. and the cascabell((sp)the rattlesnake down in Mexico)was the most venomous in the Americas

[Cmpyrrhus]

..is the man to talk to. I would take a look at his site and see some of the great work the guy has done. He is now doing research on viper venoms, so we should see a great paper on that in the not so far future. LD50 venom study only works in a drop for drop kinda way, and is dependant on how it is used (which there is a great amount of info at Bryan's site) and why. Venom also works differently from species to species, and from individuals receiving and applying. I am placing my vote on the Tiger Rattlesnake as well for the "most venomous Crotalus ever", but in the end, as they say, dead is dead.

Venomdoc Homepage (http://venomdoc.com/)

[JJFeldner]

point to mention that Tiger rattlers are natives of AZ. They are #15 on a world wide list. So, Mojaves apparently are not the most venomous rattler in the US, Tigers are. Also, I believe Mojaves are behind Eastern Diamondbacks. The only thing that makes Mojaves so feared is the large amount of snakes that have neurotoxic venom (Mojave A). You rarely hear about the majority of Mojaves which have hemotoxic venom (Mojave B), just like the majority of rattlers.

[SWHerper]

IMO Tigers may the most venomous, but not the most dangerous. I've had mojaves charge. With tigers that I've seen they are pretty, I don't want to say docile, but uninclined to be to aggressive unless otherwise provoked. I also do not believe in taking WC specimens. I just recently got a Canon G1 and pictures are just as interesting to me. If you really want a snake to keep without fear of parasites I would put down the money to house, feed, etc.... a CB. Just my two cents...:)

[brandi]

well said SWH! I myself prefer "camera herping", although i don't have anything as nice as that Canon! *wishes*

I've caught (and released!) lots of Mojaves, and they've all been quite docile... perhaps because i usually go very early -just before dawn. But I've always found them to be pretty mellow. I think Blacktails are the crankiest rattlesnakes i've run accross. Doesn't matter how quiet or gentle you are, or what time of day, they will strike at anything!

[emroul]

Well SWHerper, the only problem with getting cb specimens is venomous aren't allowed to be imported/exported/bought/sold/traded in Arizona; period. So if you want venomous, you are going to have to find a friend that already has wc specimens that have bred, or you go find them yourself...

Jennifer

Blacktails are aggressive??? ***Edited***
The blacktails I have come across have all been docile; every single one. The most dangerous snakes in Arizona are the diamondbacks or mojaves by far. First of all, they are the largest of the rattlesnakes in Arizona, and, they can deliver a much larger amount of venom. All the tiger rattlesnakes I have come across have been very aggressive. Like Jennifer said, due to the regulations of Arizona, it's almost impossible to acquire a venomous snake without it being illegal, knowing someone who already has an established w/c breeding pair, or find them yourself.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH TAKING WILD SPECIMENS.

Of course it depends on the species (i.e. Lampropeltis getula). I would much rather have a C.B. California Kingsnake than a wild-caught specimen. But with rattlers, you can't.

I also have to mention I don't take more than I need. 1.1 of anything is good enough for me. I can then produce my own C.B. animals; free of most parasites that the w/c ones might have...

My eighty cents.

Dustin

[HERPSKEEPER]

I have gone and done some reading and whatnot, and from what i found was that i got most venomous mixed up with most toxic. I guess the mojave is the most toxic rattler and the tiger is the most venomous rattler.


What is the difference between toxic and venomous????

[emroul]

Originally posted by HERPSKEEPER
All the rattlers i have taken out of the wild, i only kept for a couple of weeks and then returned them back to where i found them with a belly full of food.

If I'm not mistaken, that is also illegal. Once a specimen has been acquired from the wild and brought into captivity, it is not to be released back into the wild.

Arizona laws are tricky. For your own good: read up, and make sure you know your laws before messing with anything venomous, protected, etc.

Jennifer

[brandi]

Jennifer, you're right. If you collect a wild animal you must NOT return it to the wild. It is now believed that URTD in Desert Tortoise was transmitted in this very way. This decimated the Mojave Desert population, and threatens the Sonoran population. The same rules apply to snakes and pretty much anything else.

by the way, i'm not stating scientific fact, I'm just saying the blacktails i have run accross have for the most part been nasty, where as most mojaves i have worked were mellow by comparison. and Necois, as far as "not having a lot of experience" I've been herping AZ recreationally from about the time I could walk. I've also spent the last two field seasons working for AZGFD. (read that as living in a tent in the desert from April-September) If you want a voucher of my field cred you can call Roy Averil-Murray, Director of Reptile and Amphibian programs, Non-Game Branch. I don't consider myself a pro by any means, I will always be learning, and in another 20 years i will still call myself a beginner. but c'mon, i'm just calling things as i see them. if you say mojaves are pissy, so be it.

[brandi]

by the way, i don't have any problem with people collecting legal spp, as long as they are doing it for the right reasons.

[Gila Kid]

O.K. first off the guy who said there's nothing worth keeping in Az obviously hasn't stepped outside his door and enjoyed this great state of ours. There is so much stuff to see, herps and otherwise. If I'm not mistaken Az has one of the most diverse reptile communities in the United Staes if not the world. Now to the wild caught/ captive bred question. Bottom line is there are so many natives that you can't get on the market, and if you want one you have to go find it. I agree that you should only take what you can care for and anything more than 1.2 locality animals is probably too much, but sometimes a photo is just not enough. My advice would be don't bite off more than you can chew and think of the animals well being. I've come across adult animals that I knew weren't going to adjust to captivity just by their demeanor. You just have to let 'em go and move on to the next patch of dirt.

[Gila Kid]

I have to say that in my short life the nastiest rattlers I've dealt with were............none! For the most part all the crotes I have encountered in my life just wanted to go away and hide. This is a generalization of course, but the mean ones are the Sonoran/Bull crosses from Eastern Az, coachwhips, and various water snakes. I think the rattlers know they've got venom and the others know they don't, so they're tryin' to make up for it. It's like the short guy suyndrome(sorry to all the short guys out there).

[SWHerper]

Whoops...typo. I was pertaining the the Hognose earlier in this thread not the venomous species. sorry:loco http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-1/615471/LepidusKlauberi2.jpg