Pack Rat Decorates his house with rattle.

[Crotalusatrox]

I found this rattle in a pack rat nest when I was herping over the weekend. Can I assume that a pack rat found a dead crotalus and decided to decorate his home with a rattle? I have to remind you that I have only started herping this summer and have not see a crotalus in the wild yet. So it was kinda of exciting. Oh and anyone who would like to offer me suggestions on herping, I would appreciate it.

Chris

[reptilist]

It's cascabel broke off while rummaging through the nest.
What where you doing in the packrat nest? Don't ya know there's dangerous germs in those things?

[Brendan]

I would agree with reptilist. I'm sure it was probably a rattlesnake searching for a meal inside the rats nest and it probably snagged it's rattle while passing through.

[Crotalusatrox]

I was watching a program on the History Channel and it said that in the late 1800's cowboys would lay their ropes around the area where they slept so the rattlesnakes would not pose a risk. Supposedly, the rough and course fibers of the rope would deter the snakes from crossing over. They said that the snake does not like the feeling on his belly. Do snakes really travel deep into packrat dens? There are more cholla cactus in there than you can possibly imagine.

Reptilist, that is a very prudent idea not to be rumaging through the pack rat nest because of disease. I found the cascabel (thanks for the terminology)laying on top of the nest when I was searching. I actually don't believe in "disrupting" nature, especially rumaging through a pack rat's nest.

Brendan, will the rattlesnake grow a new cascabel?

[Brendan]

As far as rattlesnakes not crossing over a rope, I would guess it was an old wives tale that made the cowboys feel a little better about sleeping in rattlesnake country. I highly doubt the surface of a rope would stop any snake from crossing it if it had good reason too.

I have never personally come across a rattlesnake inside a packrats nest. They will usually wait outside for the rodents to come out. I would think that most rattlesnake would have to enter at one point to retrieve their meal once it's been envenomated. Natural instinct would probably cause an envenomated rodent to run back into the burrow and die. At that point the snake would have to enter. This is just a guess on my part.

I have however seen snakes crawling through a pile of cholla in a mine shaft. One snake in particular was an adult lyre snake that was covered from head to tail with those barbed thorns and I thought for sure it was dead. I pick the snake up with my hook and it was still moving but barely. I took me about 10 mins to pluck all the cholla out of the snake but when I was done the snake crawled away unphased. My guess is the snake would have died had I not helped it out.

Rattlesnake will definatley grow a new rattle in time. With each shed they develop a new basal segment on the rattle. The only thing they never regain is the terminal segment (or prebutton) that they are born with. Once that falls off it's gone for good.

[reptilist]

I once saw a mojave rattler 2/3 of his length inside of a packrat den (head first).
I am glad to read your comments about not disrupting nature! :)

[JJFeldner]

has been doing field studies for about 13 years. One of the items he is tracking is where and with whom (what?) different animals brumate. Just for interest, although off-topic, he has found WDBs that hibernate yearly with Desert Tortoises, WDBs that return to the same hibernaculum every other year, WDBs that hibernate with Gilas, Gilas that hibernate with Desert Torts, etc. One thing he found was that some WDBs choose to use packrat middens in which to hibernate (gee, should we tell them it's dangerous?). The snake forces its way in and the rat then repairs damage and the snake is safely inside for the winter. By the time the snake is ready to leave in the spring, the rat has usually had a litter and the snake takes advantage of the easy pickings as it eats a nice snack on the way out.

[Rich G.]

I have seen many just laying right on top. In fact I have a whole pile of them that I have plucked off and brought home. It was pretty obvious in these situations that the packrat was just doing what it was named for and had found broken segments and dragged them back to its nest and incorporated them into the building materials. One can find all kinds of interesting bones, small skulls, litter etc. worked into their mounds.

I have often found both scutes and atrox just emerging in the spring, laying in small groups(2-4) in packrat nests that had been built amongst prickly pear in grassland habitats north of Tucson.

Ilove packrats! (Not really)When I was a kid one made a stash of dry dogfood and cholla segments in a top shelf in little used cupboard in our garage. My dad sent me to get something and when I opened the door about a hundred pounds (no sh*t) of cholla and purina come down on me. I had cholla everywhere, through my cheeks, through my ears, one almost went through my eyelid. I used to wage a very personal war against them. LOL!

[Crotalusatrox]

I was just thinking to myself wouldn't make logical sense that a packrat would compose his house of cactus needles to keep snakes out? I have seen packrat dens that are entirely composed of cholla cactus and those composed entirely of "harmless" sticks. So my assumption is that the packrat includes cholla cactus in and around the nest to deter snakes. I don't however underestimate the appetite of a hungry snake. For everyone who replied thanks and good luck getting through this long "off season".

Chris

[Brendan]

At the rate things are going right now we may not have an "off" season this year. At least not in the phoenix area. We are still hitting triple digits.:bright

[Crotalusatrox]

As I read the weather report it does appear that we will be cooling off in the coming days. This weekend it will only get to about 95 degrees. Are you planning on herping this weekend? Have you ever herped the Superstition Mountains with any success? Do you believe crotalus atrox, scutulatus, cerastes are now diurnal in activity? Although I know night driving is very productive (I haven't done much night driving myself), I really desire to see a crotalus in it's natural habitat. Although I am only an amateur, I am frustrated with my lack of success with day hiking/herping!:mad: If you are any one you know is planning on herping this weekend and wouldn't mind an amateur tagging along trying to get some insight I would love to go! Good luck herping and I still can't believe some of the pictures you post! Wow!

Chris

[Brendan]

Chris,

Thanks for the compliment. I'm pretty sure that day hiking can still be productive this time of year. I haven't been herping in a month or so but it's not because I don't think things are still moving. The superstitions can be a fun area to check out even if you don't see any crotes. If I were to herp at all this weekend it would just be a local trip and I'm not sure yet. I'm happy to give you a few tips on good spots around the superstitions. I will send you a PM.

Brendan

[Crotalusatrox]

I appreciate any infomation that might help me and I will wait patiently. By the way I heard some discouraging information at the last AHA expo and wanted to see what you thought of it. I sat in on a Fish and Game lecture and the presenter said that research is now showing that relocations of snakes is unsuccessful. Apparently the snake, when relocated, will merely wander around trying to locate a familiar area. If no area is found that the snake recognizes, it merely wastes away! However I don't think a 1/4, which you said is the distance you relocated some snakes at, is unreasonably. Thanks again for the info.

Chris

[Brendan]

Chris,

The topic of relocation has been brought up a few times on this forum. See my post one page back entitled "the release."

Since I am fairly active on the AHA hotline program I was asking the same question. Most of the studies that have been done on relocation of nuisance animals has been on rattlesnakes. In particular Erika Nowak et.al. did a study back in the late 90's on C. atrox and the effects of long distance transloction (LDT). They found that "there were few significant impacts on movement patterns, behavior, or condition, but more than 50% of the translocated snakes exhibited increased ranges and wandering behavior." Between that study and one conducted in the Tucson area they found that over half of the trasnlocated snakes died or were lost. Because of this they suggest that LDT might not be as beneficial to the animals as we might think. Their suggetion is that the snakes be moved less than 50 m from site of capture and a minimum of 10 ha. should be provided for each snake. This doesn't account for snakes that are already established in the area of release.

My experience with speckled rattlesnakes in particular is that they do fine in a new area and don't wander aimlessly. I released a young adult male in the fall of 01 and found him in the exact same spot the following summer. Of course that's one snake and doesn't mean that every snake will do fine but even if they don't survive it's still better than sticking it in the freezer.

I don't know if studies have been done on nonvens but in most cases it's much easier to move a colubrid just a short distance without the home owner freaking out.

In cases where a rattlesnake just can't be released close to the capture site it might be best to find it a home with someone willing and able to care for it. I'm sure we could use a few more studies in the future to help clarify things.

Hope the info I PM'd you helps too.

[J&R]

Since we do thousands of relocations a year, it has now become a case by case situation. Euthanasia vrs. relocation. What is really the best disposition for that animal. Here is something from the THS

Evaluation of a Rattlesnake Relocation Program
Jude McNally, Trevor A. Hare and James Jarchow

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For many years government agencies and contractors have participated in the relocation of "desert pests" including venomous reptiles at the request of homeowners and businesses. The relocation of these animals is perceived by home and business owners and the general public as a humanitarian way of dealing with the problems associated with natural habitat loss. Over the past several years, Rural Metro Fire Department in Pima County, Arizona, has responded to thousands of nuisance wildlife calls. In 1995, one station alone responded to more than 600 calls for snake removal. The venomous snakes they capture are relocated to less populated, usually adjacent vacant or undeveloped areas. The humanitarian motive ideally involves moving the animals away from an area where they are threatened (or pose some threat), to an area where they would be less prone to habitat loss or behavioral disruption. The success of this relocation practice had yet to be evaluated on a local level. Nor is there a consensus on guidelines evident in the world wide literature that would insure the success of such relocation programs. There are obviously many unanswered questions regarding relocation of these snakes into previously balanced habitats and sometimes imbalanced disturbed habitats. Snake survival or reappearance in populated areas is just one. Left unmonitored, the current practices may have the potential to act as a vector for disease transmission, increase genetic stochasticity, increase individual snake mortality and increase the incidence of snake-human encounters. Most dangerous is the false sense of having benefited the animal or species in the absence of any scientific evidence to support this.

We studied two aspects of the translocation of rattlesnakes (Crotalus atrox, C. scutulatus, C. tigris, C. molossus ) from human habitations and businesses at the urban-desert interface. Movement levels and the risk of disease transmission were studied in a group of one hundred rattlesnakes moved by a private fire department as a service to their subscribers in unincorporated areas near Tucson. Activity ranges were documented in nine snakes implanted with telemetry transmitters. When compared to previously reported activity ranges for non-translocated rattlesnakes, six snakes showed increased size in their activity range. These increased levels of activity corresponded with the few published reports of translocated rattlesnake species. Twenty snakes were tested for the presence of the vipirid paromyxovirus, and no positive results were documented. All one hundred snakes were injected with PIT tags (Passive Integrated Transponders) before release for ease of identification in case of recapture.

Increases in activity ranges were sometimes quite large and could be attributable to many things, the search for prey and shelter in unfamiliar habitat, the search for a familiar area and increased inter- and intra-specific competition for space and resources. With the increased activity also comes a increased chance that the animal will be caught on the surface by a predator.

Disease transmission has been documented in many other translocated animals, including Crotalid species and has caused considerable damage to some wild populations of different vertebrate species. This should be considered in any future translocations.


Problems we addressed only briefly and that are deserving of more study:
Conservation education (adults and children).
Venomous animal-human interactions.
Habitat loss and fragmentation.
Other problems identified, but not addressed in the study include:
Edge and habitat fragmentation effects.
Genetic inbreeding in populations losing individuals.
Genetic outbreeding in populations with individuals translocated into them.
Altered demographic and behavioral parameters.
Loss of locally adapted gene complexes.
Loss of Biodiversity.
We have recommended to all agencies involved, that translocated animals be moved the smallest distance possible, hopefully right over the back fence of the home, that educational materials like "living with rattlesnakes" be handed out to homeowners, that snakes who must be moved should be moved in as scientifically sound a way as possible and that further study on these problems should be undertaken.

Because of the toughness of reptiles, they make ideal candidates to study the dynamics of habitat loss, fragmentation and adaptability. Even in highly disturbed and fragmented areas with walled housing developments and non-native plants, snakes and lizards can still be found and are often the cause of a panicked call to 911 for pick up and removal. These animals have a right to live where they do and they have a very important job to do there, we need to learn how to live with these animals and we need to conserve habitat for them.

For further information, you may contact co-author Trevor Hare at tahare@u.arizona.edu.

[J&R]

in pack rat dens with heloderma also.

[Brendan]

Jeff,

That article is just a summary of the same study I cited above. Part of the study was done at Montezuma's castle and the other was done in Tucson.

[JJFeldner]

They were two separate studies funded by different sources and the one at Montezuma Castle actually came to a scientific conclusion unlike the above. Erika Nowak did the study at Montezuma Castle under the auspices of the USGS. Her paper appears in the recently released "Biology of the Vipers" (Schuett, et al, ed), Eagle Mountain Press. Succinctly stated, if you move a rattlesnake too far from it's home range, you may as well kill it. At 2 km from "home," C. atrox and C. m. molossus, appeared to be "lost" and spent inordinate amounts of time searching for scent cues that could get them "home." Some perished from lack of food or lack of desire to hunt and some died due to predation. Those that were translocated a short distance away, within the home range, often found scent cues rapidly and made a beeline for home. The fact that the study took place at a busy tourist spot should indicate something. The reason for the translocations to begin with was that those damned snakes had the audacity to enter land that had been claimed by man to build his asphalt paths the better to transport people to spots where they could view the handiwork of preceding generations of H. sapiens.
The same conclusions were reached in a study in NC using Timber Rattlers in a NC State Park. In both cases, the snakes appeared to experience "episodic memory" and never returned to the capture site once they made it back to their home range.

[Brendan]

Here's the abstract directly from Biology of the Vipers Jerry. Both studies were published in the same paper. Erika conducted the study up north and Hare and McNally did the southern study with the help of RMFD. It specifically states " Although the study designs and sites were different, our results are complementary." That sounds to me like a scientific conclusion. Who cares where the funding came from.